Heya kids!


It's been a while, holiday, children, work, work, work... kinda puts a kink in things, but I'm back....

My regular gaming group and I typically play mordhiem, and when trying to pitch Death Squads to them, I was immidiately asked if squats were in? ( am I showing my age with this thread? probably...) Both of the players in my group typically play dwarves in mordhiem, and play them well, they remarked that they'd be interested in playing if there were a rule section for the squats, but I told them I didn't know ( as I've not seen them in TLRB) So, I guess I'm throwing it out there, how's about it? any love for the short beardy folk?

I personally don't have a copy of the last run squat codex, but I'm sure I can dig around the interwebs and find...... something suitable.... should someone need the codex.. just for reference... lol.

WOW! Squats... hehehehe... I do not know of any Squats Codex from 3rd Edition. If we had to go back to Rogue Trader, it would be hard to make a Squad for them, but not impossible.

Right now our hands are full... but if your buddies (the true experts) are REALLY interested, I'm sure we could work WITH THEM to make the Squats a reality. It is LOTS of hard work, the bar on quality/fairness/balance/playability is very high. So you can tell your buddies that rather than waiting for someone to produce the Squats, they are welcome to join the forums, learn to play the game (as written, of course) and then become the masters of their own destiny and start putting the Squat Squad (sounds better that the Squad of Squatters! )

I found this old, but eye-opening article on the ARCHIVED Specialist Game Forum (LINK by Jervis Johnson (LINK 1, Link 2.) He is one of Game Workshop's long-term strategy managers, having previously been employed as head of its Specialist Games division heading Fanatic. The post (which dates back to 2004) is here reproduced for your convenience.

jervis wrote:

I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available. Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background. First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantaties that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K. No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on. Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by. Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K. In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based ont he Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more lilely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell... The second point I'd like to make is about 'old moulds'. In the past, Mail Order in the UK and US used to be the place that we kept all of the retired moulds for Citadel Miniatures, and we used to offer a service where you could order any Citadel Mniature ever made from MO. However, there are now so many of these 'back catalogue' miniatures that it is simply impossible to keep all of the old moulds in Mail Order and offer this service. Instead, we pick and choose which back catalogue miniatures are kept available. At present we're still struggling to produce special catalogues for these ranges (in the US there is the 'Phone Book' catalogue with everything in it, while the UK has special 'collectors guides' that are themed round a race). Once we've ironed out the kinks in the way we deal with the range of collectors models we want to keep permenantly available, the plan is to offer up other parts of the back catalogue for limited periods of time. In effect this will divide the back catalogue into three parts: a range of classic models that are permenantly available, a range of classic models we dip into and bring out for a limited release, and a range of retired models that will no longer be sold either because we've decided that they are embarrassingly bad, or because we are no longer allowed to sell them due to licencing agreement changes. So far we're still slowly working on deciding which classic models we want to keep permenantly available, and its going to take several years to work through just those. The old Squat range is most likely to end up as retired models, I have to say, though there is a good chance that the Squat war engines they could simply into the limited release classic range. Once again, only time will tell... I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them with exisiting army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying "Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would stop you from using your army. Best regards, Jervis Johnson Head Fanatic

So there you have it... food for thought.

How about just a squat hired gun for now?

dwi

That would depend on what would be the Hired Gun about. I mean... what would this Hired Gun do that it must be a Squat. Most of the Hired Guns are about professions, and not about races (except the Commissar... which is obviously untainted human!) For example, the Demolition Expert is about the job; you play Orks, then your Demolition Expert is about an Ork that can put modified Stik Bombs with the exact same stats as the Human Demolition Expert.

That was one of the 'problems' with 40k Squats... they were not defined completely. With the exception that they liked bikes (back then very unique... now is dime-a-dozen feature) and that they had 'craftsmanship' in Epic (which does not affect the game at all.)

If a specific function can be device for the race... sure, we can make a Hired Gun. If the 'job' can be done by any race, then the HG will be a 'generic' individual.

True, however there are few left in the Imperial zone so I would say a merc that can only be used by ImpGuard and renagades Here is what I was thinking of for stats

Squat Merc:
M WS BS S T W I A LD
3 3 3 3 4 1 2 1 9


Weapons:
Boltgun, Flack Jacket, Helmet, Chainsword.

Hire fee: 50 creds.
Up keep fee: 25 creds


dwi

Function before form. What is their purpose? Fight? Cool! Hire an Assassin and use a Squat model. Heal? Hire a Healthcare Professional and use a Squat model. Stats and costs are 'irrelevant'... they will fall into place by the sheer weight of the function.

Think... what is this unit's purpose?

I'm NOT trying to be harsh... just trying to point you on the correct design path.

Hahaha! I did not say that this was the HG, I just wanted to throw some stats up. However if you want me or would like me to work on some rules and fluff just give the go a head. Oh and if it dose make it in I would like to see a thank you in there somewhere


dwi

well... you did ask about a Squt as a Hired Gun. I personally do't care for Squats... although I have a model with a flamer somewhere that may join the Eye Pokers. I just answered your quesstion and guided you through the correct process. It is up to YOU to decide what to do. It NOT an easy task... quality control is severe (putting it politely). For example... he would NOT be able to join any Imperial Squad... he is Xeno. You know how they feel about them... 'kill the xeno'. The suggested stats are basically a Morheim Dwarf... and he is super equipped.

Write a concept first, then organize its purpose, then define the rules. Finally, set up stats. Do not worry about costs; we have methods to calculate them. Also, if you are interested in design, check threads about requirements to join as a Contributor. Dropping an idea gets you mentioned in TLRB on the "thanks to everyone that made suggestions" general category; you want your name in, be prepared to sweat a little. :p


So not to discourage you, here is your 'thanks' note.

THANK YOU!

Two things:

1. The current "space dwarf" that has (barely) creeped it's way into the 40k verse is the Demiurg. They've never been OFFICIALLY called "space dwarves", or even been seen before, but they've dropped enough hints to make us beard-lovers giggle like school girls. If so, they're currently allied with the Tau, making them quite interesting in the grand "alliances" of things... though one resources sites them joining an Imperial ship in stopping a 'Nid invasion. I see them like the Eldar... an old race with their own agenda.

I'd love to brainstorm a squad or HG for these guys, but that'd be WAY down the road (and the poison I'm slowly adding to Mordheimer's Captain Crunch only works so fast.)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Demiurg

2. I have a Citadel Journal which has Jervis suggesting two "counts as" armies, using Squat models as stand ins:
Imperial Guard (count as a conquered, weaker willed)
Orks (as Squat Renegades, fighting viciously to survive!)

Hope that helps!

HAHHAHA!! Loved it!

If we WERE to do a Squat/ Demiurg squad, this line seems to do a pretty nice fig- Hasslefree Mini's "Grymn".

http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/range.php?range_id=25

The style of their armor isn't amazing, but it's slightly between IG and Tau, so they kind of work with either. And they're a little more on the serious side, so we can dispell the whole "dwarven biker" thing.

I'll share my link as well

http://www.olleysarmies.co.uk/scrunts.html
the guy who does these sculpts used to work for GW, I don't know if he worked on the stunts projects but the ones he is doing now look great.

Squats, I still have nightmares of when I unboxed the 2. edition starter set with my brother and saw the squats vehicle-cards

And all in all I am very happy that they removed them from the game as they just seemed too silly and definitely don't fit with
the more dark and grim twist the universe has taken.

Not to say that I would be completely against a dwarf race, but it would have to be done very well, or not at all, which is why I am
pleased they choose the later for now.

Spawn more overlords!