I know this won't b testable for a LOG time, but I thought I'd throw it out there, just for fun.

HRUD SCAVENGERS SQUAD

The premise: A squad of off-world parasites, worming their way onto a planet and slowly siphoning off the native life force. When their natural entropic aura has caused everything around them to age and decay, they reemerge, slaying the natives as they sleep, and pilfering any weapons and materials they can get their hands on. A Hrud hive is a dangerous infestation, one that must be eradicated at the very roots.

'Hoods' or 'Bendies'? The original 'Nocturnal Warrior of Hrud' picture from 3rd edition featured a small hooded creature with a long sniper rifle and a rat-like tail. Because of this, many players have converted the Hruds as Ratmen, effectively 'Skaven in Space'.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/Dakkalord/dangerousaliens.jpg

Since then, the GW has released pictures of a different sort: long scaly creatures, with massively long arms, closest resembling the 'Creature from the Black Lagoon'. Because their skeletal arms go both ways, the nickname for the Hruds is 'bendies'.
http://www.stuartjennett.com/images/illustration/hrud.jpg

My proposal: I recommend a group closer to the Hooded originals, but not going so far as actual 'ratmen.' Personally, I think the fluff (underground race, hard to find, parasitic), does not closely match the tall bendie creatures presented in new GW pics... (not to mention the fact that they'd be damn hard to convert!) Tactically speaking, I recommend they fit closer to the Skaven (mixing Eshin with Pestilans): they are fast movers, weak in strength, great in number, with weakening effects against their opponents.

However, while I recommend the hooded scavengers, I advise dropping the tails. They are effectively evil, plague-spreading Jawas. Or, if you want to convert masks for them, 4 foot tall Tuskan Raiders.

Models: Plague Monks and Night Goblins make the best basis. Any rat noses & tails should be sawed off, but the bony skaven and goblin fingers still present a nasty looking bit to be exposed. I've seen some modelers add gas masks on to the goblins: another nice sci-fi touch, keeping them anonymous.

I like the idea of Skaven in space. I think you could even get away with using the current fantasy models. Especially the plague monks since they're already cloaked. It would require some heavy conversions, and green stuffing to get them up to par with other 40k armies, but it would be an interesting project to consider.

...Which is the OTHER fun aspect, in that players could make them 'Skaven in space' at their own discretion.

Here are some sample Hrud conversions I found with a quick google search:

Hooded Style (my personal preference)
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28834

Rats in Space style
http://www.eastern-empire.com/images/tau_models/showcase/yukio_HrudAuxilia.jpg
http://underempire.net/ar/t26145.htm

Rat / Frog Men (Elites with Predator Armor)
http://www.pbase.com/migsula/hrud&page=1

Tentacle-faced Heavies!
http://paintyourtoys.blogspot.com/2009/06/hrud-progress-report.html

WOW! A true conversion nightmare... in the good sense of the word! I think is a concept that we could experiment with after the more 'common' Squads are done.

BTW.... a link to zelophahad's Rats in Space. (posted without permission... sorry I could not wait for you to respond! They are SOOOOOO COOOOOL!!!)



SLIDESHOW

Man, every time I see that army my jaw just drops - so amazing.

On topic - I think Hrud are a great idea for Death Squads! While they just don't have the presence in the far-flung future to justify a whole army being made of them, a game like Death Squads is the perfect place for a band of these guys to show up and start wreaking some havoc!

My personal take: While I do lean towards the "rat-men in space" interpretation of them, I also would want to see the final product avoid a simple "it's skaven in space" interpretation. I have always thought of them as something much more like the Jawas from Star Wars - a diminutive looter/techie race that wheels and deals with all comers, and more nuetral or ambivalent to the greater aspirations of the Imperium, Tau, Chaos, etc. etc.

Everything is possible man!

Here comes the brutal truth... I mean no harm... hhehee... I can give a rat's ass about the Hrud.

Well, not really... but I HAD to let the pun out of my head. You are 100% correct; this is what Death Squads is about. The Hrud ARE a microscopic mention on the fluff, just as the Necron were (exactly on the same page). Some nut at GW took the Necrons and made all this fluff and an army was born! There is NO reason why the Hrud could not be transform into a successful Squad. The fact that you don't want just 'raaaaaaaaaats in spaaaaaaaaace' speaks volumes. My advice? Get organized.

Collect all information on the sub-race. Google the hell out of it... horde the data. Hehehehe... sorry for the puns. Then you start the design by making your statement. In ONE sentence dictate who are the Hrud. For example... of all the things that Orks are in 40k, for Death Squads the Ork Mob represents:

"The story of a young Nob, who feed up with the lack of personal progress leaves the service of his Warboss, recruit some Boyz with the promise of Waaagh! and starts his ascend as the next Warlord."

Simple, yet profound. If you look at a 40k army (and fluff), Orks work in a hierarchy the stronger oppressing the weaker... Warboss over Nobs, Nobs over Boyz, Boyz over Gretchin. Now... are ALL the Nobs the same? In 40k, they all have the same stats. In "reality" (yes.. this is a made up game! I mean in the game's concept of reality) they are not the same. Some Nobs have to be stronger than others; they still weaker than the Boss (if not, then they become the new Boss!) but some maybe stronger than others. Same thing with the Boyz; once one of them grow strong enough, he becomes the 'new' Nob in the army. Veteran Nobs will not give him any respect... he was considered a Boy not long ago but other Boyz would recognize him a the GREATEST. This has to be a super ego boost. How long the 'greatest' of the Boyz can take the lack of respect and abuse from other Nobs (because he is the weakest among them)?

Ahhhh... that is what Death Squads is about. The Nob grabs his stuff, along with some of the strongest of the Boyz (some 'Ard Boyz), maybe kidnap the Weirdboy's weakest protege, as well as few weak Boyz and Gretchins (important to have someone to abuse... keeps the appearance of strength) and walks off. Promising the next big Waaagh! they are off to new lands. Once this small Mob is 'too powerful' for Death Squads... its a freaking 40k small army! Congratulations buddy... you 40k army HAS a background story that YOU lived!

That was the intention on design. You wanna make Ork Pirates (ARGH!)... cool! The same principle still applies, thus the Squad works. The Imperial Guard, the Imperial Renegades and the Eldar have similar 'one liner' statements. That is why the Squads do work on any situation you put them in; because every unit, every special rule, every item, every number... EVERYTHING that they have is geared to full fill a particular goal.

When DaBank (sorry... 'da bank' ) and I wrote the initial IG we had LOTS of unit. Many did not fit, so they were put in the cooler. The ideas were good, but did not fit the Squad. Slowly, but steadily many units have made a comeback... in other roles or Squads. With the Hrud, you have a lot of work to do... because you HAVE to create background, to see where are they going. I wrote several pages on the Jenkala (will make sense after TRLB v0.4.0 is released ) just to justify two special abilities that Dozer created.

So? Get organized. Start writing fluff!

Awesome. Sadly, the amount of fluff out there is few and far between, so I'll post what I have:

~Have an 'entropy' field around them, with several effects:
>>>Hard to see, and thus constantly in shadow (all the more reason why the cloaks are a great visual.) This can also explain why there are more than one contradicting 'visual' for the Hrud, as no clear image of them has ever been taken... also, their bodies evaporate upon their deaths! As terms of game play, I'm thinking a constant 6+ cover save?
>>>The entropy field causes others around them to grow sickly and age. No effect on Hruds, but can sicken those around them. Game Play: Either a hth combat weakness for opponents (-1 T? -1 To Hit? +1 on Crits?), or perhaps a post game attrition effect (a 'successful recovery' turns into a 'miss next game on a X+). Either as a default or maybe skill.

~ Use of plasma weapons. I'm thinking a possible 'plasma sniper' rifle for the sniper heroes (the picture has an awesome, long barreled 'nocturnal warrior'), with other plasma weapons available (ex. leader can start with a plasma pistol.)

~One picture of a 'Hrud' depicts a giant, scaled 'Bendie' warrior... I'm thinking of, rather than making the two pictures contradictory, why not make them two DIFFERENT creatures from Hrud? The tiny nocturnal warriors, and the large, spiny 'Bendy' Big Guy?


As far as tactics, I still think fast / sneaky / high number fits very well for 'infestations' of these scavenging creatures (and to be honest, the rough squad in my head keeps unconsciously fitting into a skaven-warband shape.)

One of the chief differences from skaven, however, is their motivations: the Hrud are neither good nor evil. Sure, they wipe out entire villages, but it is how they survive. They have no lofty goals to exterminate humankind, or to undermine any certain empire: rather, they arrive on a planet, burrow themselves a safe hiding spot, and take out the locals on a one by one scale. When they exhaust the resources or grow too big in number, they migrate. When they meet resistance, they run. If they cannot escape, they use force to defend themselves. Simple, really.

WOW ! Great pics and absolutely awesome idea! Since I'm a skaven fan, I somewhat like the "raaaaaaaaaats in spaaaaaaaaace" (I just love to say that! ) just like DeathGuard,but I like your way better! Looking forward to seeing this squad!

Go for it man, listen to these wise men and make it!

I like your ideas StyrofoamKing. Keep pondering about it. Look at the lack of official fluff as a good thing. You have an open canvas! This could be the next Squad after the Rogue Traders. Hehehehe... more work for you!

Sure... though the Sisters might beat them out of the gate. They have more material to base them on, more 'official' standing, and thus likely to get more support from the others. Also, I already have a rough skeleton in mind

I would disagree.

With the Hrud we have an open canvas... that is GREAT to work. We can do all sort of crazy stories and background. Who is to tell US that we are wrong? That is what I did when I wrote the Jenkala's background... I even tied it to Armageddon without disturbing the GW fluff. With this guys we can actually create lots of new units and stuff... we are bound by FAIRNESS.

With the Sisters you are bound to 40k fluff & form. It has to be adapted (Adeptus?) to Death Squads without messing with the feeling. Tricky to do... the reason why so many have failed and we are still struggling. We are just too stupid to quit!

Okay, so the Rogue Trader Codex had an unofficial stat line for the Hrud:

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
? 3 4 2 3 1 4 1 7

Of course, we don't HAVE to use it, but might make an interesting springboard.

If this was a base level Hrud warrior stats, the end result would be a VERY powerful shooting group. Maybe one or two models would be access to sniper rifles, but overall, the best weapon they'd get would be something weak, but with 'rapid fire', like an Autogun. It would effectively be 'Slingers', sending a crushing level of small shots. If this was the case, I recommend movement 4 or 5.

If these were the stats of an improved officer (maybe a base Recruit has WS3, BS3), then we can make them a little faster. The emphasis would be in Pistols, to overcome the lack of hth combat strength. They might have two 'Attacker' Officers with S3, but still, it would be at Max Strength already, and would hardly match most fighters in the long run. If that was the case, Move 5 or 6.

Either way, I like the idea of lowering the base Ld down... Ld 6 for all of the recruits, Ld 7 for the Leader. If they are hit-and-run scavengers, it would make sense that they'd have less will to stay as trained regiments.

Again, the Hruds signature weapon is Plasma... how about the Leader starts off able to use a Plasma Pistol?

Also, have a Plasma Sniper Rifle... fires S5 shots, but 'Gets Hot'. The racial list would include a skill for the Sniper hero, letting him learn to use it (saving him the trouble of learning 'plasma' and 'sniper'.) If he's potentially that powerful, lower the number of Sniper heroes to 1.

Another idea: what about a sort of 'hth' plasma weapon, like a charged staff or something? It'd be like a flail in Mord: Strength X in the first round of combat, normal strength the rest of the combat.

Hey... nothing says that Hrud do not use robots as guards!

Hmm. Possibly. I imagine a very low tech group though, so any 'robotic unit' would probably be jerry-rigged machines, made up from scraps and what not.

Sniper: Agreed. How about 0-1 Sniper officers?

Entropy: One of the few fluff things they mention is the life-sucking 'entropy' effect... while any postgame 'super fast aging effect' would only be mean and unpopular, how's this for the Big Guy 'Bendie'?

0-1 Bendie: Costs 100ish, base Ogre stats, maybe a little lower.
Life-Stealer: The entropy surrounding the Bendie is particularly strong, seeming to suck the vigor out of anyone who gets close enough. When determining Initiative order in combat, all models in base contact with the Bendie count as having Initiative 1. This has no effect on models that have a 'strike first ability' (ex. a charger in the first round, lightning reflexes) The Life-Stealer ability does not work on Hrud models, or non-living models (Necrons, Trash Kans, etc.)

Maybe have a weaker version of the same ability available as a skill, or given to a 'Hrud Priest' officer.

If it's TOO strong, we can give the Bendie Initiative 1, meaning that they always roll off to go first.

OR, if you think it's WAY too strong, we'll keep him high toughness and wounds (a 'tank'), and but lower his attack power (S3, A1). That way, he may not be strong himself, but he adds a great STRATEGIC power... he's a walking 'lightning reflexes' to every combat he joins.