I have been looking over the Death Squad rules (haven't played yet - but played a lot of Necromunda and GorkaMorka more than a few years back). I really enjoyed GorkaMorka, but what really made it great is that it downplayed the long range game, and really emphasized the close range and vehicles (maneuvering and ramming), and you could play with a lot less table terrain. I'd love to see the vehicle rules and specifically ramming rules from GorkaMorka incorporated and updated to 5th edition. Infact, I'd really like to see a fork of the Death Squads rules that would be a whole GorkaMorka centered rules set. What does everybody think of this? Sort of a fan-created Living Rule Book for GorkaMorka, too ambitious?

While I'm not the 'expert' on this topic (that will be DaBank), I will still put my 2 cents.

Death Squads is BASED on Mordheim, with elements of other games merged into it. It evolved into its own thing, to the point that when you see Death Squads the first reaction is "Just like Mordheim"... then it transform into "Ohhh... that's different!" Many subtle changes have evolved, to the point that is a beast on its own right.

One of the things DaBank always wanted to include vehicles in . I mean... back when it was Project X!!! Not Chimeras or Rhinos, but 'lighter' vehicles. Basically bikes, buggies and trucks. His idea is based on Gorkamorka... of course it would evolve into its own thing. Each race would have the same 'base' vehicles with a distinctive variant (i.e. the IG would have more armor, the Tau would fly, etc.) Rather than using the 40k's Armor Values, he suggested to use higher Toughness and Wounds to create mathematical equivalents (so to speak that a bike has T5 W2 Save 6+ and a truck T7 W3 Save 5+) so it is harder to put down, without making it impossible... also he suggested adopting (and modifying) some Gorkamorka rules so you could hit 'parts' of the vehicle (driver, engine, tires, etc). The idea is super cool... but I see lots of technical issues (mostly because there is a lot I still don't get!) Once we are ready, I will be amassing trucks!!

Several months back, we all decided that we were trying to do too many little projects at the same time. DaBank was working to add vehicles, and I was working on Fighting in Close Quarters (Tiles like Warhammer Quest and Space Hulk)... so we decided to stop & concentrate in the core rules. Once we got that going (basically TLRB v0.4.0 soon to be released) as well as more balanced Squads, we would return to those 'add-ons'. The idea is not to make a new game or revision, but allow player to choose what they want to do... for example, you could play Mad-Maxx style, or just allow one bike per Squad.

With the release of Planetary Empires and Planetstrike, a game like Death quads becomes VERY evident that it can be used on a campaign. You could use Planetary Emprires to create (and direct) a Campaign; Planet Strike to setup invasion; Death quads for 'special missions"; 40k for larger battles; Apocalypse for culmination. The addition of vehicles (as well as other modules) would serve as tools for players to use what they see fit!

Vehicles are coming... after we secure the Core Rules and several Squads that are on the works, many of the additional rules will be worked on!

Yes, vehicle rules are coming and are actually written up but we have not had time to put them into a setting.

They will follow GM pretty closely but with that Ramming will change to a more simplified version.

Hopefully, when we get ready and can count on you do to some playtesting.

I think that vehicles would be a really great addition! I just read the Gorkamorka book from GW.com, and I really like it. It seems very epic, the way you can jump onto vehicles and stuff. I think it would fit really well with the Mordheim/Death Squad ruleset, with a few modifications of course. The biggest problem I see is that they are all Ork vehicles. You couldn't try to dismount the driver of a Rhino for instance. Although the image of an Ork on top of a tank, beating the hatch open with his Choppa does look very appealing to me.

I had the same issue as you... took me awhile to get DaBank's idea into my ... imagine 3 'basic' types of vehicles: a bike, a buggy and a truck. All Squads would have access to these 'categories' of vehicles... but each Squad would have a different twist. For example, maybe Eldar bikes fly while IG bikes have more armor or Ork bikes would go fasta'! So the vehicles would look different, they would be the same (with few advantages/disadvantages of course.)

Do no Chimeras for the IG (which was my confusion!) or Rhinos for the Space Marines. Death Squads is about the Squads, so you won't see HUGE vehicles... those are reserved for war at greater scale (40k). That said, you would be able to play a campaign in which you could have no vehicles, few vehicles or all out vehicles (Mad Max anyone?)

As Mordheimer noted those are the types listed.

There are a vew variations of them to represent each race but that is the concept.

So no Rhinos or Tanks. As always there could be a special scenario written for them but if you really want rhinos and tanks then 40K is the way to go.

The only thing missing (I believe) is walkers, IG have them Sentils and Eldar have a walker and no reason why other can't either.

Yeah... I forgot! DaBank always mentioned that some special scenarios could be designed that incorporates bigger vehicles... how at this scale? I have no idea. He is taking total lead on this part of the design... as far as I know (and it is surprisingly little!) we are moving away from the traditional 40k Armor Value for vehicles. This would mean a different scale on how to do damage, but he has something on his twisted mind.

And on Walkers... well its to see. Not many races use walkers, as they are unreliable... unless they become tanks (like Dreadnaughs and Deff Dreds) BUT we deal in a different scale, so anything is possible. HA!

Well, I like the idea of the 3 types of vehicles, but unfortunately not all are easily represented by each army. Like Space Marines have bikes, but there are no real "buggies" or "trucks." So that creates a bit of a problem if each race has the same types of vehicles. So I guess there are two solutions I can think of. First is to allow light tanks (like Rhinos and Chimeras) but lower their toughness (since we're not using armor values). The second is to actually convert some new vehicles for each race. That would be quite challenging, but fun.

The second thing I thought of is when I was reading the GM rules for damaging vehicles. The damage is all very specialized, since you can hit a variety of different targets (passengers, wheels, engine, etc.). I kind of like that idea for vehicles, instead of giving them wounds. Although maybe it would be best if all the different outcomes could be simplified so they're easier to remember. But hey, it's your game. I can always make my own house rules.

No rhinos or chimeras at this time.

I have the rules in rough draft mode but follow closely to Gorka Morka and Ash Waste (necromunda) rules. Unless one reads GM and Ash Wates Necromunda and has not read many GW novels that involve IG and etc then a lot of this will be hard to see but read Ciaphas Cain novels and it will really help.

Walkers rules are in ash wastes and seem to work fine. I have this pretty much worked out but it is not time for them.

A tank scenario would be pretty easy to write up, one wounded take in the middle board two different squads trying to reach it. No where did I saw the tank would function but you could figure out search and rescue to capturing a lone tank type.

I'm not 100% sure... but I think we will be going the 'conversion' route. Yes, quite challenging, but fun! Something that took me a while to grasp (moving out of the 40k comfort zone) is that because there is no 'certain' machine or vehicle in a 40k army, there is no reason why the Army may not employ it. For example, there are no trucks in the IG Army. The only transports are HUGE combat transports. That is the equivalent to say that he current military only uses Armored Troop Transports to move troops.


We all know they ALSO use trucks... but you do not see them on the frontlines. Same thing with the IG Chimera. Space Marines (once done) may not use a light truck, but a Humvee! Who knows. Same things with the Walkers... if we can't come up with a Walker concept, then it won't be in... so we have to get creative!

Yes, I am sure there will be converting involved as most would for this case and same was the case for Ash Wastes for Necromunda as GW does not make these vehicles.

In the game 40K, there are no trucks but in the FLUFF and novels there are trucks and they are extensively used. In 40K you don't but again in books and novels you do see trucks.

There are no only HUGE transports there are smaller ones that hold about 10 guys as noted in many novels and etc. Each army and even home worlds have their own distinct vehicles.

Check our and read a few novels and you will see them readily appear as to motorcyles for IG. All the fluff is there for it, no different than using fluff for all the stuff we have done.

Walker rules are already in Ash Wastes so there is a base for it. no need to say anything contrary at the moment until something is proven, otherwise it is just a guess.

Hehehehe... I do not imagine any Space Marine Chapter using a Landraider to transport some mattresses and bedding supplies from one end of the compound! to another. They HAVE to use trucks.

The 'problem' with us 40k players is that we are indoctrinated on the 'big' armies, without any real sense of a smaller scale. Think of this... the best vehicle to do recognizance in desert or heavy urban environments is a buggy. It is small and maneuverable, yet it has space for 2 or 3 soldiers and a heavier support weapon. Marines are not idiots (contrary to what we, xeno-loving-bastards, want to believe!) It is 'easy' to see support/small vehicles with IG since they resemble real armies... but there is no reason why Space Marines could not have such vehicles. Just like the Ork's Trash-Kan... a Killa-Kan wannabe, to unreliable for big armies, yet affordable enough for starting warlords.

Why then they are not in 40k, while Orks do have them? Because they are not effective in combat... and Orks do NOT care! They are the only ones who have open-top vehicles and enjoy using them! Now, on a small-scale battle, any commander would rather use a smaller vehicles. Depending on missions, a bike would be best for moving fast from point A to point B (i.e. crossing the table), a buggy for exploring and mapping the area (i.e. searching the table), a truck to move cargo (i.e. search & retrieve) and a Walker to manipulate heavy items. Those 'missions' seem perfect for Death Squads... absurd for 40k.

Once we move forward with some items and vehicles are introduced (game mechanics aside) it will make sense.

Why are we worrying about space marines when the squad isn't finished? When the Space Marine Scouts come to life then we can see how it works. I believe it is a given that a bike and landspeeder of which there is a larger landspeeder now plus fluff from books that show they move around in a myriad of vehilces especially the Chaos SM ones. They use some really neat ships for transports.

There is no point is saying anything to the contrary at the moment about it as we are not there yet.

The whole concept works for most squads and I believe that is a given. Currently for the squads IG it works, Eldar it works, Orks it works and Chaos (human) it works.

I don't get the Ork thing as the novels I have read have different Orc vehicles and just by looking at a current Ork 40K they have a myriad of different vehicles. Orcs will take anything they can get, I believe the term is "looted" and make it work for them.

Again, there is no point is disproving what I have done until we get to that point as it makes sense. It is really up to the person to see it.

As noted many times, go read some IG novels, Gaunt's Ghosts, Chaipas Cain and etc. There is a wealth of info out and it seems I have stated as much as I can about the matter.

Just in case... I'm not disapproving of anything. If something, I'm saying that when the times come to design them, we have MUCH material (from novels to fluff to... logic!?! ) in which we can draw to make the matters not only possible, but plausible.

Just remember that for you the case is simple... you have not been corrupted by large armies! For most 40k players it will cause a double-take. Your point is valid... vehicles are not close to reality yet... we need to finish the pending Squads. You know me... the illustration below represents me looking for TLRB on the field.

Nothing in 40K is reality. It Fantasy, ok Sci Fi but the same thing. LOL. You know what I mean.

Like you always say, "this is Death Squads and not Mordheim and 40K which allows us to do what we need to do." This fit perfectly into vehicles and etc. If we don't then we wouldn't be following that rule above that has been applied to death squads.