not sure if this is the right section for this but was wondering if you were going to get these guys involved in Death Squad?

not sure how they would fit into the game or their dynamics.

but since you have Imperial guard could you use the guards as a basis and then add carapace armour, power mauls, supression shields,shot guns and bolters.

don't worry about heavy weapons, just make them have the shocktroops and shot gun guys.

just an idea as I am converting up two squads one with shot guns and the other with shields/mauls.

I am a noob and still digesting the rules.[will print them off in a couple of days easier to read]

Cheers
LGW

Honestly I don't know much about the Adeptus Aribites, beside they are awesome. Maybe this would be your part of the project?

Hehehe... here is my double-post. Hopefully Dozer won't smack me over the head with a newspaper! I have added new things... so read it all!

Before you design anything, go ahead and play with establish Squads in Campaign mode. Get a feel for the rules. I would suggest playing IG Cadian vs IG Cadian... it will give you the 'sense' of the little changes that make Death Squads so tactically different than other skirmishes. Make sure to play with the grenades... lots of fun! NEW: This will also give you a sense of the items already on the game, which could serve you as a benchmark to design new ones. Many 'powerful' items appear to be toned-down... but instead they are still as powerful, with mathematical equivalents that still leave chance for survival. No auto-kills!

Give feedback on your experiences... good and bad. This way we will know if TLRB is well written or if we need to make revisions. Once you can call yourself a Death Squad vet, then we can talk about design. We have learned quite a bit in this project. One thing, is to design backwards. WTF?!? Hehehehe.... most people who design Warbands (for Mordheim) attack the problem by making units and stats first, then jamming the round peg on the square whole. We must design from fluff (form) to get to the stats (function.) NEW: For example, you are already considering unit costs. For us, that is so low on the list is not even funny. WHAT?!? Yeap... the reason is NOT that is not important (it is critical!), but it happens that we (Dozer... I just watched) made a calculator. It gives an unbiased unit cost based on over 30 parameters. Sure you can eye-ball it; probably will get 90% of the costs right. But why spend HOURS eye-balling costs, when it can be done perfectly in 10 mins?

Unlike Mordheim (which has 15 warbands, 12 which are human), we have other races to think about. Ask Styrofoamking... just like you, he wanted to design a Rogue Trader Squad and we flipped him several times on his head. We are a tough crowd... MUHAHAHAH! Once we managed to convince him to get out of the box... OHHH BOY! The concept that he has for the Rogue Traders is... well, revolutionary. Simple, yet unique. Right now it is all on a diaper-stage (he has still a chance to mess it all up!), but he got us all giddy! I'm already looking for models. Arrrgh!

Learn the game... help us with TLRB, Scenarios and so on. Once we know you understand the concepts and have met the Contributor requirements, we will be more than happy to help YOU make the Squad.

Now, to answer your questions/comments.
1) I'll read through the rules and have a look at the points/set up etc of the imperial guard you have the game.
The IG Cadian are the game benchmark. Everything on the game (and I mean EVERYTHING) is balanced to be fair against them. No matter how crappy (Gretchins and Workers) or powerful (Space Marines) are the adversaries, all is balanced so it is fair for everyone. Do not concern about costs right now... we did all that for you already! Concentrate in 'discovering' (from a design point of view) why certain rules are in place the way they are. We call it Ninja Design. It helps to know all those points, so you can design your own Squad around them.

2) a points matrix for each item would be good to work with, so I could cost out weapons/equipment etc.
We do have a calculator for unit costs, weapons and armor. We scratched what we had for wargear... and have to re-design something new. All calculators compare apples to apples, so it is fair over all. Wargear had proven difficult to put on the right matrix. You will notice that the Wargear costs are all loony. We will get it done... someday.

3) is carapace armour used?
Yes. It is part of the IG Depot.

4) I know from reading some threads you are having issues with Space marine armour hence why the delay in the Space Marine scouts.
Ahhh... the Space Marine Conundrum. We are working the kinks via the Chaos Cultists. Their Leader is a Chaos Space Marine, and like all SM he presents a big challenge. While the specifics on this discussions are reserved for Contributors and Designers, in a nutshell part of the problem is as follows. The SM starts with 'super human' stats (read 4's and 5's), as well as awesome weapons (a Bolter is one of the most powerful non-specialty weapons) and Power Armor (potentially Save 3+) right from recruitment. On a traditional approach (designing like we did for Mordheim), this unit would cost over 250 credits. While this is fine (apples to apples) it present long term problems. The Squad size would have to be very small (5 guys) to make it competitive, but such a small number has a low Routing; the SM player could end up loosing lots of games. If anyone manages to kill a SM (I mean dead, not just OOA) then the SM player will loose a 250 credit model... he won't be able to recover in a campaign. It took 7 games for an IG Cadian player to recover from loosing 4 Officers in the 1st two games. So here we have a Squad composed of the most powerful units, that can't win a game. Not fun.

So we are tweaking and re-designing their recruitment and general behavior. The Space Marine Scout Squad (SMSS) will have one VERY cool SM (just like the Chaos Cultists (CC) have one), so we can prepare for the design of the Space Marine Chapter Squad (SMCS). We are taking our time... because they HAVE to be perfect. We are well in our way... it will just take time. Right now we (at Fort Myers) are the only ones play-testing things (and giving feedback), so we have been forced to stop designing new stuff until we test the current batches. If some group would test the Kroot...

5) It won't be fast this investigation into the Adeptus Arbites as I do shift work and have two demanding kids. [Master2 and Miss4, plus she who must be obeyed] but I'll plod through and see what I can come up with.]
I understand... I have Da Boss and 3 mini-Mordheimers. There is no hurry. We are here for the long haul... just play and have fun. Things will fall on their place.


PS--> Sorry... no Dreadnaughts... except a dancing one -->

thx for the answers.

I'll get some games going with in the next few weeks and then start posting reports.

Thx also for the advice and I am looking forward to doing this QUEST!!!!

Cheers
LGW

<------ Screams "INCOMING!!!!" and smacks mordheimer across the head with a rolled up newspaper.

Stupid Orks......always having to do things twice cause they didn't think they got it right the first time.....

The Arbites are a great idea. There are models all ready created for Necromunda and there is a nice set of rules that would provide a blue print on them. Maybe down the road we can fit them in. We do have quite a few human squads at the moment and we need a few more Xeno ones in.

*As always, the Hrud wait quietly underground, awaiting their chance...*

@Styro...LOL. There are so many great squads to bring into this game. If either of us wins the lottery then let's make a pack to share it so we can quit working and devote a 100% into getting all the squads in. In fact, I will stop by the gas station today and purchase some just in case. I did match 5 out of six once. The funny thing I didn't know until I had the grocery store scan the ticket. LOL. 5 out of six is nice but very little in money compared to the overall jackpot.

That is what makes DS such a viable solution to those who love 40K or Sci-Fi but don't like large battles. Not saying anything is wrong with large battles but my prefernce is skirmish games, and this has more to do with running a campaign, battle reports and etc.

You and your Hrud... Way to TRY and Hijack the thread... you are terrible!

I agree with da bank that Death Squads have a lot to offer, for different people. He doesn't care for large armies... so skirmish is his choice of poison. I'm story driven guy, be an microscopic (two model) skirmish or a huge Apocalypse game.

The Adeptus Aribites will be done... it is just a matter of time. I think they are an untapped 40k resource... just like the Hrud. DAMN! I'm helping Styro to hijack this train!

Joking aside, I think the Arbites are a good idea. From what I've heard, the Necro-Arbites were a bit strong (due to some of their special recruitment rules, not their strength), but they'd be just right for a Death Squad team.

And I think that's what makes this game promising to me... it's not just "40k Skirmish"... we're actually considering stuff that's too "small" to ge their own army, but still a valid part of the 40k verse.

Hey, these guys would be a great foil to the Rogue Traders! (heh heh... I did it again!)

StyrofoamKing... you are a sneaky one!

thx for the incouragement will be doing some work on this in a couple of days.

if you want xeno type squads then you'lllike the Genestellear cult Iam also starting to piece together.

now that's going to be a fun squad.

willkeep you posted will have some minis done up soon of my Adeptus Arbites. its really hard to find the Necromunda adeptus arbites and if you do actaully find them they aredam expensive.

Cheers
LGW

Speaking as a guy who used to field a full 40k army of arbites back in the day, I fully support your news letter and wish to subscribe!

I really wish I had kept my models *smacks forehead*, oh well, but if you need any info on the Adeptus Arbites, just ask!

Post the data here on this thread if you want.